Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Truth » Wed May 09, 2012 5:38 am

Dear BYM,

Anybody can check what I say and if I am wrong I will admit it. I have only asked questions that should have been asked long ago. I did not say anybody is guilty. You are not the only person with the right to ask questions or have an opinion. I see no reason why I could have lost my credibility.

If you are withholding a timeline that can conclusively demonstrate who was where and at what time, you are doing nothing other than sabotaging this case. I therefore ask you again to publish it immediately. Just do it. It would be the biggest contribution anyone has ever made to this case. Do not hide behind vague legal reasons - if it is correct, it is too important to hide and I am certain there will be enough legal people who will be more than happy to help you.

While we are at this, can you also tell us why it is so important to you that nobody else may have an opinion that differs from yours without a certain attack?

Kind regards
Truth
 
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Wolverine » Wed May 09, 2012 8:48 am

Hi

I have been following this blog for a while now and the case since 2005. Why has there been so much aggression of late???
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Tazman » Wed May 09, 2012 9:33 am

Mercenaries. Bounty hunters after the reward.
"Man was born free, but he is everywhere in chains." -- Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Truth » Wed May 09, 2012 11:01 am

Cetainly not me Tazman. A lot of people have already paid enough........

This case has tainted a field (forensics) of which my team and I are part. We are just doing our little bit to make up for it. There never was and never will be money involved from our side. We are not police, and just want to ask that we must never forget that there are some very good people in there who are doing great work on the cases that do get solved properly. We seldom hear of them or give them any credit.

This is a case with many exceptional facets and acting as civilians we cannot necessarily always get all the evidence we need, to look at it properly. My presence on this site is a simple attempt to see if open discussion cannot help us (eg. someone might know something or Mr. Beelders can give us his cell phone records). It is also a very good form of review for our thoughts. In spite of my recently ruined credibility :) I still have enough support to say that I can easily put together a team of at least 10 top forensic experts from different disciplines that will give their time for free if needed to help solve this case.

If that makes me a parasite (?) then so be it.

Enjoy the evening!
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Interested2 » Wed May 09, 2012 4:50 pm

Can anyone answer my last question: Was the front door the only possible escape route?
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby brandondee » Wed May 09, 2012 5:30 pm

Hi Interested2,

I don't believe the front door was the only escape route. I understand that there was a second entry/exit to the property which lead out to a small balcony (the kind you could only really put a small braai on). Depending on the exact positioning of 21, this balcony would have been adjacent to another compex, with a similar setup facing the units. The only real alternative into the complex itself would have been at the back-end of the complex which is/was surrounded by an open field, where Carolis indicated they entered the complex.

The complex itself is small, consisting of and I stand to be corrected of approximately 48 units, in an adjoining L configuration with communial parking under shade-ports forming the centre of the complex. Inge's unit was first-floor which would have had one or the small balconies I referred to, on the right handed L/side of the complex.

An escape route would have been possible via the balcony but either entering or leaving the unit in this fashion should have produced some eyewitness - at least some suspicion by anyone who may have been home at the adjacent properties.

Regards

Brandon
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Truth » Wed May 09, 2012 11:59 pm

Hi Intetrested2,

The front door was the only escape route. The apartment has very strong burglar proofing and according to testimony the sliding door onto the balcony was checked and found locked by the police. The balcony faces the parking area, and is quite high, so it is an unlikely escape route, even if the balcony door was open.

The front door opens onto a passage type balcony that is quite well hidden from the parking area and you do not have to leave the building via the main entrance, but can easily get to a car that is parked at the top end of the building without being noticed by many (if any) people.

The particular apartment was(still is) at the end of a long building with units 17 - 24 of the complex. There were no shadeports at the time. The only open field is the bit next to the R44 road and anyone climbing that fence during daytime would have been highly visible - I have aerial photographs of the area at that time.

Those of you with an honest interest in solving the case can contact me at lotzcase@gmail.com and we will find a way of sharing some of the evidence from the court case and some other bits & pieces we have collected. I will not identify you to anyone other than the people who work with me on this. This offer is only for people who can show that they are willing to contribute positively and not just to satisfy curiosity eg. contributors to this discussion.
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby BrightYoungMind » Thu May 10, 2012 3:15 am

Truth wrote:Those of you with an honest interest in solving the case can contact me at lotzcase@gmail.com This offer is only for people who can show that they are willing to contribute positively and not just to satisfy curiosity eg. contributors to this discussion.


Those of you with an honest interest in ‘solving’ this case can contact Brigadier Piet Byleveld – he’s easy to find.
He’s the guy Inge’s father has chosen to lead the manhunt for his daughter’s killer.
Those of you with a genuine and ‘honest interest’ wouldn’t have a problem working with him.
The rest are welcome to join the posse. The leader, a man steeped in mystery, amongst other things, obviously has an ego the size of Mars.
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Interested2 » Thu May 10, 2012 5:51 am

So now we have two conflicting opinions on whether the balcony door was a possible escape route. Brandon says it was a possibility, Truth says no.

Brandon, your argument that entering or leaving the flat in this way should have produced some eyewitness is not valid. Does sound like you are alive to this because you say “by anyone who may have been at home” Well, if nobody is at home then nobody is at home right? If the murder was committed during daytime then people would/could have been at work or at university or getting on with their daily business. If the murder was committed at dusk or night, then even less possibility of eyewitnesses due to poor visibility.

Truth, you say “according to testimony the sliding door onto the balcony was checked and found locked by the police”. Could you please point out who gave this testimony and the page number in the record? Maybe even post an extract here? Also, to your point “anyone climbing that fence during daytime would have been highly visible” I say again: if nobody saw it, it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. What if he/she/they scaled the fence at dusk or during the night?
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Truth » Thu May 10, 2012 9:11 am

Hi Interested2,

I quickly checked. Look at the testimony of Captain Prins bottom of p517 -518. He says that he checked and that the safety gate was still in place. My assumption is that it means still locked, but I could be wrong. Just for the sake of correctness - I think it was french doors, not a sliding door as I said earlier.

I do agree with you on the fence if it was dusk. It would actually be easy to reach the fence from the particular flat without being seen. In particular if you leave via the front door & go down the stairs but not go via the main entrance of the building. I think the flat next door was empty on some of the photos I have seen. Not certain when that was taken though. The passage type balcony from the front door is in such a position that even if people were home, there is a good chance that nobody will see a person walking there at any time of day.
Truth
 
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Interested2 » Thu May 10, 2012 10:34 am

Truth, you are good. Possibly even very good.

To me, Captain Prins’s explanation sounds a bit odd... “in place”... and we are left having to make an assumption on what that means...

Was this testimony in Afrikaans or English? Why not just say that it was locked or unlocked? Surely they checked? How did the prosecutor lead Prins through this part of his testimony and was he cross examined on it?

Do we know if there are any traces leading towards this exit? Or any other testimony indicating that the balcony door could have been used as an escape route?
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby PCC » Thu May 10, 2012 10:32 pm

I might be a little late to this party, but BYM's statement about someone posting on this thread losing readers respect seems only to apply to him and his comments in my opinion. What got ihis panties in a bunch? Reminds me of the postings in another thread by Daktari. Cryptic boasts of inside knowledge and vitrolic responses to those simply sharing their ideas was Daktari's MO...just saying
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby BrightYoungMind » Fri May 11, 2012 2:05 am

PCC wrote: BYM's statement about someone posting on this thread losing readers respect Reminds me of the postings in another thread by Daktari.


After over 30 years on the job PCC one would have thought you'd have learned a thing or two and become a much better judge of character than that.

Just sayin'
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Truth » Fri May 11, 2012 2:14 am

Thanks guys,

I must admit that being attacked was one of the last things I expected and it is rather difficult not to respond !

Interested2 - the testimony was in Afrikaans, and I have included it below. The sumtotal of testimony regarding the balcony door is a single sentence. Nothing else that I am aware of.

"Die enigste ander gedeelte waar ek wel was, was in die TV kamer gedeelte, waar ek die gordyn oopgetrek, oopgemaak het en toe gesien het dat die veiligheidshek nog steeds in plek is."

Court testimony is something that can really be a problem in many cases. A simple thing for instance - Christo Pretorius testfied that he could see that the door was unlocked. On the photos (cannot get it to upload properly) the door has frosted glass, so I cannot quite understand the following statement : "Ek het gesien die deur is oop, die slotjie is nie gesluit nie."

I will upload some of other parts of his testimony later, maybe collective thoughts can get some clarity, as I have some problems around it .........
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Blue Bull » Fri May 11, 2012 3:58 am

Maybe I can help with the translation. Captain Prince says: The only other area where I went, was the TV room part, where I drew open the curtain, opened it, and then saw that the security gate was still in place."

Christo Pretorius says: "I saw that the door was open, the (little) lock was not locked."

Both are strange to me.

I cannot understand why Prince woudl use a term like "in place". The simplest, easiest, most commonly used forms in the Afrikaans language would be "oop" (open), "toe" (closed) or "gesluit" (locked).

As for Pretorius's comment the only thing I can think is that it could have been one of those Yale slam locks which is noticeable from the outside when it is not fully closed. Do we know what the (little)lock looked like?
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