Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Neville » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:36 pm

Possibly a hi man who enjoyed is work to much!?!?!?!??
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Pat » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:27 pm

Interesting.
sonofjohn wrote:Actually there were no dirty dishes in the apartment - only a plate and mug in the drying rack.

Please help me understand my confusion. During my evaluation of the crime scene processing, I saw a photograph that was allegedly one of the police crime scene photos. I have no reason to doubt that, as it was in with other photos that could only have been taken at the scene.

The sink was a split sink. In the left half were the tops of three glasses extending above the rim of the sink. One appeared to be a wine glass and the other two appeared to be water glasses. There was a drinking straw in one of the glasses. By the way, there was a zig-zag pattern of fingerprint powder on the refrigerator door to the left of the sink. It was not consistent with a thorough dusting of the refrigerator, but a fast, haphazard dusting.

There was what appeared to be a yellow piece of police crime scene tape tied to the sink spout and hanging down into the right half of the divided sink. The dish drainer contained one plate and an object behind it that could have been a mug. There appeared to be several other items in the drainer, as well.

Here's where you can help me, Son of John, as you apparently have original information. Perhaps you were there. I can hypothesize two reasons for our differences, as follow:
1. The sink actually was empty and the wine glass and drinking glasses were put there by the police at the scene.
2. You were there later, after somebody had removed them from the sink.

If hypothesis one was true, then obviously there was no reason to fingerprint the glasses.

If hypothesis two was true, then they should most definitively have been fingerprinted.

So help me out here. Were the police drinking from glasses in the apartment and putting them in the sink after they had drunk? Or did somebody remove the glasses and dispose of them in some way?
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Interested2 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:40 pm

Now that we're onto the topic of crockery in the apartment (again) I want to put up a little red flag to say please remind me to tell a story about a dialogue which happened in the courtroom towards the end of the criminal trial…
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Pat » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:11 pm

Okay, I'll bite.

Please tell me a story about a dialogue which happened in the courtroom towards the end of the criminal trial.
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby sonofjohn » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:00 am

Pat

Altbeker in his book vividly describes a police video taken during the early hours of March 17 while Inge's body was still in the apartment. He describes the kitchen as being clean and neat - with only a plate and mug in the drying rack. No mention of other cutlery or a glass that may have carried Fred's fingerprints.

Altbeker is very pro-Fred and thinks highly of you. No reason te believe his description is not accurate.
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Pat » Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:30 pm

Hi Son of John

Antony Altbeker is a good story teller and you are right, his descriptions are vivid. His descriptions may not be considered erroneous in the world of writers, but in the world of police witnesses testifying to facts in court, his details are terribly wrong.

For example, as you may have read in this discussion earlier, I became somewhat irate at his description of me. Not because he painted a picture that I disagreed with. Quite the contrary, the impression he gave of me, while not entirely flattering, was quite accurate. I questioned some of the direct quotes he attributed to me, but since I did not keep transcripts of our conversations, I could not state unequivocally that he got the quotes wrong. But what I can state was wrong was his description of me as wearing a set of gold cuff links with my granddaughter's fingerprints engraved in them. I do not wear French cuffs, I own no gold cufflinks, and I most certainly do NOT own a pair of gold cufflinks with my granddaughters fingerprints (or anybody else's fingerprints) in them.

So while the overall impression Antony presented of me is vivid and accurate, his details are not accurate and would never stand up to cross examination in a court of law.

Therefore, I accept your explanation as making perfect sense. Inge's kitchen was clean and neat. But there were a few glasses in the sink and more than merely one plate and mug in the dish drainer. That is the difference between a good writer giving a vivid description that creates an accurate image in the mind of the reader, and a forensic expert who must get all of the details all exactly right or be crucified on the witness stand.

Were those glasses fingerprinted?

Who knows.
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Truth » Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:42 am

Hi Pat,

On the video there is a single glass in the left hand basin and what appears to be 2 plates in the right hand basin. There is a plate, 2 mugs and a plastic container with lid, semi covered with a dishcloth in the drying rack. No signs of FP on the video.

The photo you describe seems to be from a batch taken at a much later stage. Other photos in the same batch show that the couch on which the body was found, was already removed at that stage. The glass with the drinking straw in the basin looks like one with a drinking straw that appears on the coffee table next to the body on the video, so it was possibly moved to the basin at a later stage. You will have a better idea if that glass was in fact printed. I cannot remember seeing a the wine glass anywhere on the video.

A number of other items were also moved before the photo was taken eg. a tin with diet shakes.

T
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Pat » Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:58 am

Hello Truth

Very interesting information. The primary focus of my examination was the eleven lifts that were allegedly taken from the scene. A review of the crime scene processing was incidental to that examination, but was never primary. Of course, you have read the transcripts and know that I was questioned on the stand about the crime scene processing and I answered to the degree that my observations showed sloppy work. What you add now convinces me the work was even sloppier than I earlier thought. It seems as if items came and went and moved around. It sounds as if the things that can be seen in a photograph depend on what hour of what day the photo was taken. If there is no sign of fingerprint powder on the refrigerator in the video, then it was taken before the photograph I saw. I wonder if the video was taken before anything was moved? I know Inge's fingerprint was on a lift labeled as having come from a drinking glass on the coffee table where the infamous DVD cover was found. I wonder if they fingerprinted the glass and then put it in the sink. The photograph I saw did not allow that degree of analysis.

Thanks for your additional information.

Pat
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby brandondee » Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:04 pm

And months have passed and once again, the case goes quiet. All the leads, the new information, theories and conspiracy have gone cold once again as another dead-end is reached and other matters again take priority. It would seem Inge Lötz' murder will continue to haunt us still for a long time to come.

I haven't seen any further reports or progress made by Piet Byleveld. Is the case still being investigated privately?

Does anyone have an update?

Just checking in and pinging the community!
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Pat » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:52 pm

I must admit that I expected something to have happened by now. But having read the book, "Byleveld: Dossier of a Serial Sleuth," I know that Piet Byleveld does not push the envelope. He uses psychology to lead a killer into tripping up and giving himself away. Still, I thought the reward might have induced somebody with information to have come forward. If any readers of this forum have information they would like to pass on, you may leave me a private message or communicate through my personal email, foridents@aol.com
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Pat » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:12 am

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/ ... d-20121104

'Inge Lotz was betrayed'

2012-11-04 10:02

Cape Town – Murdered Stellenbosch student Inge Lotz, 22, was killed by someone close to her and was betrayed by her friends.

This startling revelation has been made by investigative journalist Michael Day, reported Rapport.

Day has been working with ex-top cop Piet Byleveld, who was appointed by Lotz’s father to help solve the murder that made headlines since the student’s body was found in her flat seven years ago.

Day said all the answers to the mystery were locked within Lotz’s circle of friends, some of whom had climbed the ladder of success since her murder.

Day said these so-called friends refused to talk or reveal what they knew of the brutal murder because they believed they were above the law.

They pretended to be her friends but really hated her, said Day.

Hatred was also the motive for her murder, he said.

Lawyer Johan Jordaan who represented Inge Lotz’s parents said Day was the one person who had worked closely with Byleveld to solve the murder.

“Michael Day and Piet Byleveld are a team. Piet is the master detective, Michael the background man who sits with astonishing information after years of research. Yes, they share information,” said Jordaan.

Day will release his book on the murder next year. Its working title was Betrayed – The Inge Lotz Story: Her Life, Her Death, and the Hunt for Her Killer.
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Interested2 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:43 pm

What a refreshing and original take on the case! If this group of friends, upstanding young men in society who have climbed the ladder of success, are not coming forward to cooperate with a PI and some obscure author, there are only these conclusions to be drawn: its not a case of them actually having no further information to share, its not that the PI played his cards poorly by threatening to "expose" them a few months ago, its not even possible that they are staying silent for fear of suffering the same fate as the innocent man previously accused... No, their silence is irrefutable proof that they actually do have more information, are betraying the soul of the deceased by keeping quiet, that by betraying her it means that they hated her, and because they hated her, it means that the crime must have been committed by one of them.

Or have i got the reasoning wrong here?
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby southafricanspotter » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:55 pm

HI all, i am new to this world, that being the online community in large and of course this particular board.

i have followed this thread for a while and of course the inge lotz saga, it has opened my eyes to alot of "anomalies"

This case has intrigued from the beginning because as a law student i found fantastical that a prosecutor who knows the facts insists on prosecuting a person she KNOWS is innocent, in fact it boggles my mind. FIRSTLY because if she gets caught (which inevitably you will by a decent defence team) she will look like a fraud and an unethical scoundrel, secondly from a purely ethical perspective, thirdly, WHY would you willingly want to send a person to prison for life knowing that you have the wrong person...not only for fred sake or even the lotz's but also many other potential victims who might fall victim to another vicious attack at the hands of the original/real perpetrator who you know is still on the streets. UNREAL!!

I have my own assertions on who killed inge lotz and obviously my own theories and none of them ever included Van der vyver. It was always a physical impossibility that he could have committed the crime. IN my own opinion it was most certainly one of her "friends" if not two working together. IT would seem she had created enemies while succeeding at university. AS for the theory that their were drug addicted "bergies" or a gang of some type in her tiny flat? i am of the view that that theory if fraught with impossibilities aswell..the first and most glaring would be the lack of evidence in that direction, because with the amount of blood and other anomalies to consider one would expect to find footprints and fingerprints all over the show, not to mention the fact that they wouldnt have bothered cleaning up in the bathroom and still left valuables and left the place relatively undisturbed...why? because why waste time cleaning up when you can steal valuables for drugs.

in my opinion it would seem she was at peace in her chair when she was attacked in her "underwear" this would imply trust in the person who attacked her, since it does not seem she actually attempted to escape or even turn in the direction of the murderer, which once again indicates she trusted this person since she did not even bother to look at the person coming up behind her...if someone broke in anywhere in that tiny flat she would not have stayed stationary and at ease in her chair, it defies logic and the law of self preservation.

IM not even going to comment on the police work, since this would imply that work was actually done...this is a fallacy, since no work was done.

i am also frustrated by the time it is taking to solve this case. i say that because in todays world of forensic technology and specialists trained for this type of case i believe it can and should have been solved. There are people adept at this type of investigation lets hope justice will be done for all parties concerned...

and as a law student of which i have been for years, this case inspires hope.
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby Pat » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:58 pm

southafricanspotter wrote:HI all, i am new to this world, that being the online community in large and of course this particular board.


Welcome, southafricanspotter. Although I watch for English language news articles on the Inge Lotz murder, I cannot read Afrikans and do not follow those news stories. Perhaps you could advise us if other stories have appeared in the recent past.

Thanks,
Pat
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Re: Evidence Fabrication in South Africa

Postby southafricanspotter » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:49 pm

hi pat
nothing new here is south africa. except to say that insp Byleveld is playing mind games... lets hope they work.
He is something of a legend here in the minds of south africans, he has a remarkable record in tracking down hard to find killers.
Further - he has an equally high conviction rate once he has made his arrest...so if he arrests you, you are going to jail.
also her facebook page has received some chatter but nothing compelling.

I am really curious to see who or at least what motive was behind the attack.
also if anyone has crime scene photos i would be interested to see as many as possible, i have up to this point only seen the now infamous folein 1 and a small
blob of blood on the bathroom floor, and of course the shoes. anyone have any other photos?
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